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DAAT · LEVEL 2 — LAMDAN

Siman 205 — Lamdan: the criterion of התפסה and the שאלה of the עם הארץ

Eight questions on two seifim: what one may attach to, and what is required when nothing has attached
יורה דעה · סימן ר״ה
דִּין הָאוֹסֵר דָּבָר עָלָיו בְּאִסּוּר תּוֹרָה
🎓 Lamdan level · למדנות
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Two seifim, twenty-two commentary entries: siman 205 is where the mechanism of the נדר allows itself to be defined most precisely, because there one sees its failures. We take eight questions here, each with the text before our eyes — two of which our sources leave open, and which we leave open with them.

Subject : Siman 205 — Lamdan: the criterion of התפסה and the שאלה of the עם הארץ
Source : שולחן ערוך יורה דעה סימן ר״ה

Compilation : הרב יוסף חיים סממה
DAAT · daattorah.com

📑 Plan of study

1. What is the true criterion? The origin of the prohibition, or its reproducibility by a vow
2. The Rambam's graded series — six cases that settle the question
3. The ma'hloket of the Rambam and the Rosh on the שאלה of the עם הארץ
4. Why the wife and not the rest: three reasons, three נפקא מינות
5. חרטה, פתח, and the Ran's limit
6. בדרך קנס: התפסה or קבלה?
7. The Bach's difficulty, the Taz's, and the single word of the Nekudot HaKesef
8. Recapitulation of the positions

1. What is the true criterion?

Siman 204 gave one line: an anchor is what was made forbidden by a man's mouth, and not what is so from birth. Siman 205 gives another, and one must see that it is not exactly the same. The Rambam — whom the Shach copies out in full at ס״ק א — writes:

« זֶה הַכְּלָל כָּל הַמֵּשִׂים דְּבָרִים הַמֻּתָּרִים כַּדְּבָרִים הָאֲסוּרִים אִם אוֹתוֹ דָּבָר הָאָסוּר יָכוֹל לַעֲשׂוֹתוֹ בְּנֵדֶר הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ אֲסוּרִים. וְאִם אֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לַעֲשׂוֹתוֹ בְּנֵדֶר הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ מֻתָּרִין » (רמב״ם הלכות נדרים פרק א׳ הלכה ט)
חקירה. Two formulations of the criterion, which do not coincide. (א) Origin: the anchor must have been made forbidden by a man's word (this is the line of siman 204, קדושת הפה against קדושת מעי אמו). (ב) Reproducibility: the anchor must be a status a vow could produce — even if in fact this particular one was not produced by a vow. The Rambam writes (ב). Are there cases where the two diverge?

2. The Rambam's graded series — six cases that settle it

The Rambam does not content himself with the rule: he tests it on six cases, arranged as a staircase, and one then sees that it is indeed reproducibility that governs.

Case 1 — the קרבן: binds

« הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ אֲסוּרִין עָלָיו מִפְּנֵי שֶׁאֶפְשָׁר שֶׁיִּדֹּר אָדָם קָרְבָּן וְיַעֲשֶׂה בְּהֵמָה שֶׁהָיְתָה חֹל קָרְבָּן וְתֵאָסֵר » (רמב״ם הלכות נדרים פרק א׳ הלכה ז)

Case 2 — pork: does not bind

« הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ מֻתָּרִין וְאֵין כָּאן נֵדֶר. שֶׁאִי אֶפְשָׁר שֶׁיַּעֲשֶׂה דָּבָר שֶׁאֵינוֹ בְּשַׂר חֲזִיר כִּבְשַׂר חֲזִיר » (רמב״ם הלכות נדרים פרק א׳ הלכה ח)

Case 3 — the חטאת and the אשם: bind, although they are not brought by vow

« לְפִיכָךְ הָאוֹמֵר פֵּרוֹת אֵלּוּ עָלַי כְּחַטָּאת אוֹ כְּאָשָׁם אוֹ שֶׁאָמַר הֲרֵי הֵן חַטָּאת אוֹ הֲרֵי הֵן אָשָׁם הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ אֲסוּרִין » (רמב״ם הלכות נדרים פרק א׳ הלכה י)

This case is decisive. The חטאת and the אשם do not come by נדר ונדבה — and yet one may attach to them, because a man may come to bring them as a result of his vow (the נזיר). The criterion is therefore not “was this vowed?” but “can a vow lead there?”.

Case 4 — Aharon's חלה and his תרומה: do not bind

« אֲבָל הָאוֹמֵר פֵּרוֹת אֵלּוּ עָלַי כְּחַלַּת אַהֲרֹן אוֹ כִּתְרוּמָתוֹ הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ מֻתָּרִין שֶׁאֵין שָׁם דֶּרֶךְ לְהָבִיא אֵלּוּ בְּנֵדֶר וּנְדָבָה » (רמב״ם הלכות נדרים פרק א׳ הלכה י״א)

Case 5 — נותר, פיגול, impure flesh of קדשים: bind

« הָאוֹמֵר הֲרֵי הַפֵּרוֹת הָאֵלּוּ עָלַי כְּנוֹתָר כְּפִגּוּל כְּבָשָׂר טָמֵא שֶׁל קָדָשִׁים הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ אֲסוּרִין שֶׁהֲרֵי עֲשָׂאָן כִּבְשַׂר קָרְבָּן מִכָּל מָקוֹם » (רמב״ם הלכות נדרים פרק א׳ הלכה י״ב)

Here is the most instructive case for our siman: נותר and פיגול are things forbidden by the Torah, exactly like pork — and yet they bind. Why? Because they are the flesh of a קרבן, and the flesh of a קרבן can be produced by a word. The prohibition is not what counts: it is the identity of the thing.

Case 6 — מעשר בהמה binds, בכור does not

« הֲרֵי הֵן עָלַי כְּמַעֲשַׂר בְּהֵמָה הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ אֲסוּרִין הוֹאִיל וּקְדֻשָּׁתוֹ בִּידֵי אָדָם » (רמב״ם הלכות נדרים פרק א׳ הלכה י״ג)
« הֲרֵי הֵן עָלַי כִּבְכוֹר הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ מֻתָּרִין שֶׁאֵין קְדֻשָּׁתוֹ בִּידֵי אָדָם וְאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לְהַתְפִּיסוֹ בְּנֵדֶר » (רמב״ם הלכות נדרים פרק א׳ הלכה י״ג)
יסוד. The six cases fall under one measure, and it is not “forbidden by the Torah / forbidden by a word”. It is: can a man's word install this status upon a thing? נותר is forbidden by the Torah and binds, because the flesh of a קרבן is installed by a word; the בכור is holy and does not bind, because its holiness is not so installed. The criterion of siman 204 — origin — is a particular case of this one.

3. The ma'hloket of the Rambam and the Rosh on the שאלה of the עם הארץ

The Mehaber writes that an עם הארץ needs a שאלה. This is not everyone's view, and the Tur says so expressly — he sets the Rambam against the Rosh, and sides with the latter:

« המתפיס בדבר האסור כגון דאמר ככר זה יהא כע״ז או כנבלה וטריפה או כיין נסך אינו נדר ואין צריך שאלה אפי׳ בעם הארץ » (טור יו״ד ר״ה)
« והרמב״ם כתב שאף התולה דבר בדבר האסור שצריך שאלה בע״ה וא״א הרא״ש ז״ל לא כ״כ » (טור יו״ד ר״ה)
Three positions, and the Shulchan Arukh retains one. (א) The Rambam: even one who suspends a thing on a דבר האסור needs a שאלה if he is an עם הארץ. (ב) The Rosh, followed by the Tur: no שאלה is required, not even for an עם הארץ, where foods are concerned; the stringency aims only at the case of the wife. (ג) The Mehaber follows the Rambam in the body of the seif; and the Rama reports the Tur's position as a י״א. The Shach (ס״ק ד) will say that it is this last — the Rama's — that is primary.

And here is the live ma'hloket, the one that decides practice today. The Rama had set down two successive י״א: the first says that nowadays all are עמי הארץ; the second, that an עם הארץ needs a שאלה only for his wife. The Bach refuses to combine the two in this direction and extends the requirement to all vows. The Shach decides:

« והב״ח חולק דהשתא כ״ע כע״ה הן אפי׳ בשאר נדרים ודברי הרב נראין עיקר לפי שסוגית הש״ס מוכחת כן » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ד)
נפקא מינה. A man today says of a dish: “it is to me like pork”. For the Bach: he is an עם הארץ like everyone, so a שאלה is required. For the Shach (with the Rama, the Rosh, the Ran and Rabbeinu Yeruham): the stringency aimed only at the wife, so no שאלה here. The Baer Hetev (ס״ק ג) transmits both — and puts forward the Shach's conclusion.

4. Why the wife and not the rest: three reasons

The stringency aims at a single case. Three explanations are given for it, and they do not produce the same consequences.

(א) The Prisha — what is at stake is פריה ורביה

« דכיון שיצא לבטל מפריה ורביה החמירו » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ה)

(ב) The Ran — the frequency of the utterance

« מפני שדרכו לאסור אשתו מתוך הקפדה » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ה)

(ג) The Taz — the danger of habit

« שלא יהא רגיל לומר עליה לשון איסור שמא יאסרנה ג״כ בדבר הנדור דההקפדה עם אשה מצוי » (ט״ז יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ב)
נפקא מינות. (1) A man says this of a woman who is not his own: for the Prisha, פריה ורביה is not at stake, so no stringency; for the Ran and the Taz, habit and vexation are the same. (2) A man says it of his wife with no vexation at all, coldly: for the Ran the ground of frequency falls; for the Prisha what is at stake remains. (3) A man who already has children: the Prisha weakens, the other two do not. These distinctions are not decided in our sources — we set them down so that the student sees that the three reasons are not interchangeable.

5. חרטה, פתח, and the Ran's limit

The seif does not content itself with requiring a שאלה: it requires a particular path. The Shach explains what is set aside and what is required:

« אלא כאן מחמירין עליו דאפי׳ מתחרט מעיקרו לא סגי בחרטה » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ג)
« וכתב הר״ן רפ״ב דנדרים דצריך שיהא ממקום אחר ואין פותחין לו בכבוד אמו » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ג)
חקירה on the nature of the פתח here. Since there is no vow to release, what exactly does the חכם do? (א) He releases a doubtful vow — we fear the utterance may after all have carried something. (ב) He annuls nothing: the procedure is pedagogical, it serves to impress upon the man that vows are grave — which is the reading the seif's own stated motive suggests, כדי שלא ינהגו קלות ראש בנדרים. The Shach's stringency — even a regret bearing on the origin does not suffice — is far better understood on (ב): what is wanted is not the annulment but the passage before the חכם.

One exception, and it confirms the reading: the Rashbatz, reported by the Beit Yosef, sets the requirement aside when the man was compelled. If the procedure were the annulment of a doubt, compulsion would change nothing in the doubt; if it is an admonition, compulsion removes its ground.

« על מי שנאנס לאסור אשה אחת והתפיסה בדבר האסור י״ל דבמקו׳ אונס לא אחמרו רבנן להצריכו שאלה » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ב)

6. בדרך קנס: התפסה or קבלה?

Seif ב ends on a יש אוסרים ויש מתירים that the Shulchan Arukh leaves open. The divergence bears not on the facts but on the qualification of the utterance.

The two qualifications. (א) יש מתירים — this is an התפסה, and it fails, since יין נסך is not a דבר הנדור. The Shach (ס״ק ט) and the Taz (ס״ק ג) say nothing more: the reason is that of the whole siman. (ב) יש אוסרים — it is not an התפסה at all, it is a קבלה: a man takes a stringency upon himself, as a court may impose one according to the needs of the hour. The Shach (ס״ק ח) reports it in the name of the Rivash. The question is therefore not “does this attachment take hold?” but “is there an attachment here at all?”.
« דאף על פי שאין ההרחקות אלו מדין מכל מקום יכול הוא לקבל על עצמו » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ח)
« ויש מתירין. כיון שלא התפיסו בדבר הנדור » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ט)
נפקא מינה. The Rama himself draws the consequence of reading (ב): if what operates is the capacity to impose a stringency on oneself, then the community can do so far better than the individual — and he recalls that רבים may, in the time of the Sanhedrin, so decree against rebels. The Rivash's reasoning, pushed to its end, leads straight to that gloss.

7. The Bach's difficulty, the Taz's, and the single word of the Nekudot HaKesef

קושיא. The Rosh, in a responsum reported by the Beit Yosef, writes that one who says “let my wine be forbidden to all Israel if I do such a thing” — and does it — has forbidden nothing. But the Tur wrote, at the beginning of siman 204, that the language of איסור makes a נדר! Why should that not work here?

The Shach reports the difficulty in the Bach's name, then gives his own answer — and it is a fine one, because it leaves the siman to go and find the verse:

« ולי נראה דאף על גב דאם אמר ככר זה אסור עלי הוי נמי נדר היינו משום דכתיב לאסור איסר על נפשו אבל לאסור על כל ישראל אינו יכול לאסור אם לא בקונם » (ש״ך יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ז)
תירוץ of the Shach. The language of איסור draws its force from the verse לאסור אסר על נפשו — “to bind a bond upon his soul”. It therefore operates only upon the speaker. To forbid a thing to another, one must go through a קונם, that is, through a word that attaches to a קרבן. He who says “let my wine be forbidden to all Israel” has used the one language that cannot do it.

The Taz raises the same difficulty at ס״ק ד, proposes a neighbouring distinction, but concludes quite otherwise: this responsum of the Rosh is not authoritative, and that is why the Tur did not report it. It is precisely here that Sefaria places the mark of the Nekudot HaKesef — and their single entry in the siman holds in three words:

« וכמדומה דהך תשובה לאו דסמכא היא ע״כ לא הביאה הטור » (ט״ז יו״ד ר״ה ס״ק ד)
« כבר קדמו הב״ח » (נקודות הכסף יו״ד ר״ה)
What the Nekudot HaKesef mean. The Shach there answers the Taz by a reminder of precedence: the difficulty the Taz believes he is raising, the Bach had already raised — and the Shach had already dealt with it in his own commentary, where he gave the answer from the verse. In other words: there is no call to set aside the Rosh's responsum as the Taz does, since it can be explained. An honest note: the internal reference of the Nekudot HaKesef designates a ס״ק number that does not coincide with the one under which this discussion appears in our edition of the Shach — it is read there at ס״ק ז. We flag this without correcting it.

8. Recapitulation of the positions

The questionPositionWhoConsequence
What criterion for the anchor?The status must be producible by a vowRambam הלכות נדרים א׳:ט, copied by the Shach ס״ק אנותר and פיגול bind although forbidden by the Torah; the בכור does not bind although holy
Does an עם הארץ need a שאלה for foods?YesRambam, followed by the Mehaberשאלה required, with a פתח
Does an עם הארץ need a שאלה for foods?No — only for his wifeRosh, Tur, the Rama's י״א, Shach ס״ק דNo שאלה for foods
Nowadays, does the requirement hold for all vows?YesBachשאלה in every case
Nowadays, does the requirement hold for all vows?No — the Rama remains primaryShach ס״ק ד, taken up by the Baer Hetev ס״ק גOnly the case of the wife
Is a שאלה needed in a case of compulsion?NoRashbatz, via the Beit Yosef, in the Shach ס״ק באונס removes the requirement
The utterance said בדרך קנסForbids — it is a קבלה, not an התפסהRivash, in the Shach ס״ק חThe wine becomes forbidden
The utterance said בדרך קנסPermits — there is no דבר הנדורRosh, in the Shach ס״ק ט and the Taz ס״ק גNothing took hold
“let my wine be forbidden to all Israel”Does not take — the language of איסור holds only upon oneselfShach ס״ק ז, from לאסור אסר על נפשוA קונם would be needed
“let my wine be forbidden to all Israel”The Rosh's responsum is not to be retainedTaz ס״ק דThe Tur did not report it
On this last pointThe Bach had already raised the difficultyNekudot HaKesefSee what the Shach wrote about it
Siman 205 looks short and negative — “this does not bind”. In truth it carries the most precise definition in the whole block: one may attach only to a status that a man's word could install. And it adds a second thing, of another order: precisely where nothing binds, the halakha may require going to a חכם — not to release a vow, but so that vows remain a grave matter.
The sources of this level may be consulted on Sefaria:
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