✦ ❖ ✦ D A A T · L E V E L 3 — S Y N T H E S I S / R E V I E W ✦ ❖ ✦
Siman 95 — Fish and Eggs Cooked in a Meat Pot (Noten Taam bar Noten Taam)
דגים וביצה שנתבשלו בקדרה של בשר
The נותן טעם בר נותן טעם דהיתרא (the taste of a permitted taste), the Mehaber / Rama machloket (Sephardi / Ashkenazi), עלו vs נתבשלו, the דבר חריף, dishwashing (הדחת כלים), ash (אפר) and storage proximity
Structured review, master grid, fast memorization
Source: Shulchan Aroukh, Yoreh De'ah צ״ה — 7 seifim
Nossei kelim: ש״ך (Shach) · ט״ז (Taz) · פר״מ (Pri Megadim) · פתחי תשובה (Pithei Teshuva)
Compiled by: הרב יוסף חיים סממה · DAAT
For students who have mastered Levels 1 and 2
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📑 Outline of the synthesis
- The axiom: נותן טעם בר נותן טעם דהיתרא — the taste of a permitted taste
- The 3 reflex questions: permitted or forbidden · cooked or "risen" · sharp or not
- The master grid: permitted (נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא) vs forbidden (fat / issur)
- The 5 golden rules
- Mnemonic — the "DAGIM" memory aid
- The 4 classic pitfalls
- Recap of the 7 seifim — one line each
- Final flashcard
1. The axiom: נותן טעם בר נותן טעם דהיתרא — the taste of a permitted taste
The starting point:
Siman 95 no longer deals with a forbidden substance falling into a permitted one, but with a permitted taste transmitted twice. Meat gives its taste to the pot; the pot gives it to the fish cooked inside. Yet each of these tastes is permitted: this is נותן טעם בר נותן טעם דהיתרא (the taste of a permitted taste). The taste is קלוש (faint) and was never forbidden → the fish stays heter, permitted to eat with כותח (dairy). The Mehaber (seif 1) permits "מִשּׁוּם דַּהֲוֵי נוֹתֵן טַעַם בַּר נוֹתֵן טַעַם דְּהֶתֵּרָא". But the Rama is stringent le-chatchila in cooking and roasting (יש מחמירין) while permitting bedieved: this is the Sephardi / Ashkenazi machloket that structures the whole siman.
| Path | Mehaber (Sephardi) | Rama (Ashkenazi custom) |
|---|
| נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא, eating with the other kind | Permitted even le-chatchila | Forbidden le-chatchila (cooking/roasting); permitted bedieved |
| Putting in THEIR dishes / עלו (without cooking) | Permitted | Permitted le-chatchila |
| Stuck fat (שומן) > 1/60, or דבר חריף | Forbidden (60 required) | Forbidden (60 required) |
💡 The marker: this siman no longer speaks of "cold / hot / salted" nor of "tasting / 60" against a prohibition, but of a repeated permitted taste (נ״ט בר נ״ט). Everything flips to forbidden the moment there is (a) fat in substance (ממש) at more than one sixtieth, (b) a real איסור (even several נ״ט בר נ״ט stay forbidden), or (c) a דבר חריף that carries the taste like substance.
2. The 3 reflex questions
■ PERMITTED OR FORBIDDEN? (היתרא / איסורא) — is the transmitted taste permitted (kosher meat → pot → fish) or is there an איסור / fat ממש > 1/60? Permitted taste → נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא, permitted; issur or fat → 60 required (seif 1).
↓ we look at the mode of contact
■ COOKED/ROASTED OR "RISEN" (עלו)? — cooked or roasted (נתבשלו / נצלו) → true נ״ט בר נ״ט, which the Rama disputes le-chatchila but permits bedieved. Only "risen" (עלו), hot placed on cold without cooking → lighter, permitted even le-chatchila for all (seif 2; Taz s.k. 3-4).
↓ we look at the nature of the food
■ DAVAR CHARIF OR NOT? (דבר חריף) — a sharp / pungent food (onion, garlic, spices ground in a מדוך, חריף גמור רובו ככולו) → it carries the taste like substance: forbidden even bedieved up to 60 against the absorbed meat. A little spice does not make it charif (end of seif 2; cross-ref siman 96).
⚖ Why נ״ט בר נ״ט permits (seif 1)
At each step the taste is already permitted and weakens (קלוש): the meat is kosher, the pot carries only a meat taste, and the fish receives only a taste of a taste. Eating that fish with כותח does not recreate "meat and milk" in the full sense. But with an איסור (real נבילה, etc.), even several נ״ט בר נ״ט stay forbidden (Taz s.k. 1) — the leniency applies only to a permitted taste at each link.
3. The master grid: permitted (נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא) vs forbidden
An absolute must to memorize. Basis: Mehaber seifim 1-4, read with the Rama, the Taz (s.k. 1, 3-4, 8-9, 13, 15) and the Shach (s.k. 1).
| Situation | Decisive criterion | Result |
|---|
| Fish cooked/roasted in a well-washed meat pot, eaten with כותח |
נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא |
🟢 Permitted (Mehaber); bedieved (Rama) |
| Poorly washed pot, fat ממש > 1/60 of the fish |
Substance of fat |
🔴 Forbidden with כותח (60 required) |
| Egg cooked in water, in a dairy pot, put into poultry |
נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא |
🟢 Permitted even le-chatchila |
| Egg cooked WITH meat, even to the depth of a קליפה |
Direct meat taste |
🔴 Forbidden to eat it with כותח |
| Food only "risen" (עלו), without cooking |
עלו (no bishul) |
🟢 Permitted even le-chatchila (both directions) |
| The dish it cooked in was לפגם (not ben yomo) |
Degraded taste |
🟢 Custom permits le-chatchila with the other kind |
| Davar charif cooked / ground in meat dish (even non ben yomo) |
דבר חריף (כחד שמן) |
🔴 Forbidden even bedieved up to 60 (siman 96) |
| Bishul vs tzliyah (bedieved, Rama) |
No. of נ״ט (water = 3, roast = 2) |
🟡 Cooking (3 נ״ט) more lenient than roast (PT s.k. 2) |
📌 Key reading: first ask is the taste permitted or is there an איסור / fat ממש; then cooked/roasted or only עלו; then is the food charif. And keep in mind the machloket: the Mehaber permits, the Rama is stringent le-chatchila (cooking/roasting) but permits bedieved, the use of the dishes, the עלו and the non-ben-yomo.
4. The 5 golden rules
- "נותן טעם בר נותן טעם דהיתרא". A permitted taste transmitted twice stays permitted; but with an איסור, even several נ״ט בר נ״ט stay forbidden (Mehaber seif 1; Taz s.k. 1).
- Fat ממש > 1/60 = forbidden. A poorly washed pot with substance of fat → 60 required; we presume that a pot in which one cooked had no stuck fat (Shach s.k. 1).
- Mehaber / Rama machloket. The Mehaber permits eating with the other kind; the Rama forbids le-chatchila in cooking/roasting, permits bedieved, the dishes, the עלו and the non-ben-yomo (Mehaber + Rama seif 2).
- Dishwashing: two ben yomo + together + כלי ראשון = forbidden. One non-ben-yomo, or separately, or in a כלי שני → permitted. עירוי of meat = כלי ראשון; neutral water poured = permitted even with stuck fat (Mehaber + Rama seif 3).
- דבר חריף cancels the leniency. A fully sharp food (רובו ככולו) carries the taste like substance → forbidden even bedieved up to 60 (Rama seif 2, cross-ref siman 96).
5. Mnemonic — the "DAGIM" memory aid
"DAGIM" (דגים, the fish of seif 1)
- Double taste: נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא — permitted because the taste is permitted and faint.
- Ashkenazi / Sephardi: Rama stringent le-chatchila (cooking/roasting), Mehaber permits.
- Grease (fat ממש) > 1/60 → forbidden; 60 required against the fat.
- Interdicted if charif: a דבר חריף carries the taste → even bedieved up to 60.
- Merely risen (עלו) → light, permitted even le-chatchila.
The dishwashing matrix — הדחת כלים (seif 3-4)
- 2 ben yomo + together + כלי ראשון → forbidden (and such is the custom)
- one non-ben-yomo / separately / כלי שני → permitted
- עירוי of meat onto milk → like כלי ראשון, forbidden if ben yomo
- neutral water poured on both → permitted even with stuck fat
- ash (אפר) in the water in advance → נ״ט לפגם → permitted even with stuck fat
6. The 4 classic pitfalls
❌ Pitfall 1 — Reading seif 1 as a general leniency: נ״ט בר נ״ט applies only to a taste permitted at each link. With an איסור (real נבילה, forbidden חֵלֶב fat, etc.), even several נ״ט בר נ״ט stay forbidden (Taz s.k. 1). And if fat in substance (ממש) at more than one sixtieth is stuck on a poorly washed pot → forbidden, 60 required.
❌ Pitfall 2 — Confusing עלו with נתבשלו/נצלו: a food merely "risen" (עלו) — hot placed on a cold dish of the other kind, without cooking — is permitted even le-chatchila in both directions (Taz s.k. 4). But cooked or roasted (נתבשלו / נצלו) → this is the true נ״ט בר נ״ט that the Rama disputes le-chatchila (cooking and roasting) and permits only bedieved. Do not apply the leniency of עלו to a real bishul.
❌ Pitfall 3 — Forgetting the דבר חריף: a fully sharp food (חריף גמור, רובו ככולו) — pungent things cooked in a meat dish even non ben yomo, or spices ground in a מדוך (mortar) of meat — cancels the leniency of נ״ט בר נ״ט: it carries the taste like substance and is forbidden even bedieved up to 60 against the absorbed meat (cross-ref siman 96). A little spice does not make the food charif — only if it is רובו ככולו sharp.
❌ Pitfall 4 — Getting the dishwashing matrix wrong: for meat dishes washed with milk dishes, the Mehaber permits by נ״ט בר נ״ט (if no fat, "ברי לי"), but the Rama (Tour, many Rishonim) forbids if the two are ben yomo, washed together in a כלי ראשון (and such is the custom). Permitted if one is non-ben-yomo, or washed one after the other, or in a כלי שני. עירוי from a meat כלי ראשון = like כלי ראשון; but neutral boiling water poured on both → permitted even with stuck fat (the עירוי is not a true כלי ראשון making them absorb from each other).
For the halacha le-ma'aseh, consult your Rav.
7. Recap of the 7 seifim — one line each
| Seif | Topic | The essential |
|---|
| 1 | נ״ט בר נ״ט: fish in a meat pot | Fish cooked/roasted in a well-washed meat pot, no stuck fat → permitted with כותח (נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא). Poorly washed pot with fat ממש > 1/60 of the fish → forbidden (60 required). |
| 2 | Egg; Mehaber / Rama machloket; דבר חריף | Egg cooked in water in a dairy pot → permitted in poultry even le-chatchila. Cooked WITH meat even a קליפה → forbidden with כותח. Rama: יש מחמירין in cooking/roasting, custom forbids le-chatchila / permits bedieved; their dishes, עלו, non-ben-yomo permitted. דבר חריף (רובו ככולו) → forbidden even bedieved up to 60 (siman 96). |
| 3 | הדחת כלים (dishwashing — central case) | Meat dishes washed in a dairy יורה, water יד סולדת, even both ben yomo → permitted (נ״ט בר נ״ט), if "ברי לי" no fat; otherwise 60. Rama: forbidden if 2 ben yomo + together + כלי ראשון; permitted if one non-ben-yomo / one after the other / כלי שני. עירוי of meat = כלי ראשון; neutral water poured = permitted even with stuck fat. |
| 4 | אפר (ash) | Ash put into the hot water of the יורה before placing the utensils → permitted even with stuck fat, because the ash renders the taste נותן טעם לפגם (degraded taste). (Taz s.k. 15: בורית/fat-based soap = פגום.) |
| 5 | Proximity: כותח / salt / vinegar | One does not place a vessel of כותח next to a vessel of salt (visible, does not nullify); permitted next to vinegar (חומץ) (nullifies in 60). Rama: only if uncovered; and bedieved (one transgressed) → permitted, we do not fear it fell into the salt. |
| 6 | Meat jug next to a milk jug | Permitted to store in a chest a meat jug (כד) next to a milk one. Rama: some are stringent le-chatchila; good to refrain where unnecessary. |
| 7 | Salt from a meat dish into milk | Salt placed in a meat bowl → permitted to put it into milk (the salting does not absorb enough). Rama: one who is stringent on this too, blessing upon him, for some forbid le-chatchila (Tossafot, Sma"g, Or Zaroua). |
8. Final flashcard
| Question | Reflex answer | Source |
|---|
| Fish cooked in a well-washed meat pot, with כותח? | Permitted (נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא); bedieved for the Rama | Mehaber seif 1; Rama |
| Poorly washed pot, fat ממש > 1/60? | Forbidden unless there is 60 | Mehaber seif 1; Shach s.k. 1 |
| Egg cooked in water in a dairy pot? | Permitted in poultry even le-chatchila | Mehaber seif 2 |
| Food only "risen" (עלו)? | Permitted even le-chatchila, both directions | Rama seif 2; Taz s.k. 4 |
| Food that is דבר חריף (רובו ככולו)? | Forbidden even bedieved up to 60 | Rama seif 2 (siman 96) |
| Dishwashing: 2 ben yomo + together + כלי ראשון? | Forbidden; one non-ben-yomo / separately / כלי שני → permitted | Rama seif 3 |
| Neutral boiling water poured on meat and milk? | Permitted even with stuck fat; ash (אפר) → permitted (לפגם) | Mehaber seif 3-4 |
| כותח near salt? near vinegar? | Salt → no; vinegar → permitted (nullifies in 60) | Mehaber seif 5 |
| Salt from a meat bowl into milk? | Permitted (Mehaber); Rama: good to be stringent | Mehaber + Rama seif 7 |
⚖ The reflex in 3 questions
- Permitted or forbidden taste? נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא → permitted; איסור / fat ממש > 1/60 / charif → 60 required.
- Cooked/roasted or only עלו? עלו → permitted even le-chatchila; cooked/roasted → Rama stringent le-chatchila, permits bedieved.
- Which dishwashing, which proximity? 2 ben yomo + together + כלי ראשון = forbidden; neutral water / ash / non-ben-yomo = permitted; כותח near salt = no, near vinegar = yes.
For the halacha le-ma'aseh, consult your Rav.
🎓 Recap of the study path
| Level | Content | Acquired |
|---|
| 🌱 Level 1 — Base |
Text of the 7 seifim, translation, clear tables |
Overall understanding |
| ⚡ Level 2 — Lamdan |
Yesod of נ״ט בר נ״ט דהיתרא (קלוש / permitted taste), the Mehaber / Rama machloket (cooking vs עלו), the דבר חריף, the dishwashing matrix (כלי ראשון / עירוי) |
In-depth study |
| ✨ Level 3 — Synthesis |
Master grid, golden rules, mnemonic, pitfalls, recap of the seifim |
Practical mastery + review |
💡 Suggested next steps:
- Re-read Siman צ״ה in the original Choulhan Aroukh (Hebrew) with the Shach and the Taz
- Study the adjacent Simanim: 91 (contact, salting, תתאה גבר), 92 (טעם וביטול, חתיכה נעשית נבילה), 94 (dishes and כלי ראשון), 96 (דבר חריף and the knife), 97 (the oven and cooking), 116 (danger: fish cooked with meat)
- Delve into Hullin 111b (נותן טעם בר נותן טעם) and the yesod of the faint permitted taste (קלוש דהיתרא)
- Discuss personal cases with a Rav (mixed dishwashing, fish in a meat oven, the spice מדוך) — the halacha le-ma'aseh is decided with a Rav
📖 Sources of this siman on Sefaria:
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DAAT · הרב יוסף חיים סממה
תלמיד חכם · מעביר שיעורים בהלכה ובחסידות
סימן צ״ה · Level 3 — Synthesis / Review · דגים וביצה שנתבשלו בקדרה של בשר
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