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DAAT · LEVEL 1 — INTRODUCTION
Siman רנ״ד · 9 Seifim
Dishes started before Shabbat to finish cooking on Shabbat — roasted meat, bread, legumes
סימן רנ״ד
דיני תבשילים המוכנים מערב שבת כדי להגמר בשבת
🌱 Introduction Level · Beginners
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A first look at the 9 seifim that pick up where siman 253 left off, on a particular case: cooking meat over the fire (tzeli / roasted), baking bread in the oven (afiyah), and legumes that cook fast. The central concept: שמא יחתה (lest one stoke the coals) — and how it shifts based on the type of meat (gedi/chicken vs beef), the state of the oven (tach b'tit = sealed with clay), and the bread's crust (קרימת פנים).
📑 Study Outline
1. The Shulchan Aruch text — the 9 seifim
2. The general context — tzeli, afiyah, special sugyot
3. Key concept 1 — gedi / chicken meat vs beef: the difference in chitui (stoking) concern
4. Key concept 2 — tanur tach b'tit (oven sealed with clay)
5. Key concept 3 — kerimat panim (bread crust) and pashtida
6. The details of the 9 seifim
7. Rama's position — our ovens, redi'ah
8. Modern practical cases — rotisserie, bread oven, slow cooker
9. Practical synthesis
10. Comprehension questions
1. The Shulchan Aruch text
Seif Alef — Roasted meat near the fire: gedi vs beef
דִּינֵי תַּבְשִׁילִין הַמּוּכָנִים מֵעֶרֶב שַׁבָּת כְּדֵי לְהִגָּמֵר בְּשַׁבָּת. וּבוֹ ט' סְעִיפִים: אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁבָּשָׂר חַי מוּתָּר לְהַשְׁהוֹתוֹ — הָנֵי מִילֵי בִּקְדֵרָה, אֲבָל בְּצָלִי שֶׁאֵצֶל הָאֵשׁ אָסוּר לְהַנִּיחוֹ סָמוּךְ לַחֲשֵׁיכָה, שֶׁמְּמַהֵר לְהִתְבַּשֵּׁל וְאָתֵי לְחַתּוּיֵי. וְהָנֵי מִילֵי בִּבְשַׂר שׁוֹר אוֹ עֵז, אֲבָל בְּשַׂר גְּדִי וָעוֹף שֶׁהֵם מְנוּתָּחִים לְאֵבָרִים — מוּתָּר, דְּלָא חָיְישִׁינַן לְחִיתּוּי, שֶׁאִם יְחַתֶּה בַּגֶּחָלִים יִתְחָרֵךְ (פֵּרוּשׁ: יֵצֵא מִגֶּדֶר הַצָּלִי וְיִכָּנֵס בְּגֶדֶר הַנִּשְׂרָף) הַבָּשָׂר, שֶׁאֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ אֶלָּא חֲמִימוּת בָּאֵשׁ בִּלְבַד. וְאִם הוּא בְּתַנּוּר וְטָח פִּיו בְּטִיט — בֵּין גְּדִי וָעוֹף שְׁלֵמִים בֵּין בְּשַׂר שׁוֹר אוֹ עֵז — מוּתָּר, דְּלָא חָיְישִׁינַן לְחִיתּוּי, שֶׁאִם בָּא לִפְתּוֹחַ הַתַּנּוּר וְלַחְתּוֹת — תִּכָּנֵס הָרוּחַ וְיִצְטַנֵּן הַתַּנּוּר וְיִתְקַשֶּׁה הַבָּשָׂר וְיַפְסִיד. הגה: וְאֵין חִילּוּק בָּזֶה בֵּין אִם הוּא חַי לְגַמְרֵי אוֹ שֶׁנִּתְבַּשֵּׁל קְצָת [ב"י]. וְכָל זְמַן שֶׁחֲלַל הַגּוּף שָׁלֵם, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין עָלָיו רֹאשׁוֹ וּכְרָעָיו — מִקְּרֵי שָׁלֵם (הגהות מרדכי). וְיֵשׁ מַחְמִירִין וְסוֹבְרִים דִּבְתַנּוּר טוּחַ בְּטִיט הַכֹּל שָׁרֵי, וְעַל גַּבֵּי הָאֵשׁ שֶׁהוּא מְגוּלֶּה הַכֹּל אָסוּר, וּבְתַנּוּר שֶׁפִּיו מְכוּסֶּה אֶלָּא שֶׁאֵינוֹ טוּחַ בְּטִיט — אָז יֵשׁ לְחַלֵּק בֵּין גְּדִי וָעוֹף וּשְׁאָר בָּשָׂר כְּדֶרֶךְ שֶׁנִּתְבָּאֵר, וְהָכִי נָהוּג כִּסְבָרָא זוֹ (טור והגהות אשירי וב"י בשם רש"י סמ"ג וסמ"ק וסה"ת).
The laws of dishes prepared on erev Shabbos so as to finish cooking on Shabbos — 9 se'ifim. The Mechaber: although raw meat may be left (on the fire), that is in a pot; but a roast next to the fire — assur to place it near nightfall, for it cooks quickly and one will come to stoke. And that concerns ox or goat meat; but kid (gedi) or fowl cut into limbs — permitted, for we are not concerned about stoking: if one stoked the coals, the meat would char (i.e. leave the category of "roasted" and enter that of "burnt"), as it needs only the warmth of the fire. And if it is in an oven whose mouth is sealed with clay — whether whole kid and fowl or ox or goat meat — permitted: for were one to open the oven to stoke, the wind would enter, the oven would cool, the meat would harden and he would lose out.
Hagahah of the Rema: and there is no difference here between completely raw and partially cooked [Beis Yosef]. And as long as the body cavity is whole, even without its head and legs — it is called "whole" [Hagahos Mordechai]. And some are machmir and hold: in a clay-sealed oven — everything is permitted; on an open fire — everything is assur; and in an oven whose mouth is covered but not clay-sealed — one distinguishes between kid/fowl and other meat, as explained; and such is the custom, following this opinion [Tur, Hagahos Ashri, Beis Yosef in the name of Rashi, Semag, Semak and Sefer HaTerumah].
Hagahah of the Rema: and there is no difference here between completely raw and partially cooked [Beis Yosef]. And as long as the body cavity is whole, even without its head and legs — it is called "whole" [Hagahos Mordechai]. And some are machmir and hold: in a clay-sealed oven — everything is permitted; on an open fire — everything is assur; and in an oven whose mouth is covered but not clay-sealed — one distinguishes between kid/fowl and other meat, as explained; and such is the custom, following this opinion [Tur, Hagahos Ashri, Beis Yosef in the name of Rashi, Semag, Semak and Sefer HaTerumah].
Seif Alef lays down the guiding principle of the siman: look for where a person has no incentive to stoke. Three situations where the worry vanishes:
- Stoking would damage the dish (the gedi/chicken would burn)
- The sealed oven makes the act physically unappealing
- (Continued in Seif Beit) The dish is already cooked like maachal ben Drosai and burning it would be a loss
Seif Beit — Roasting onion, egg, meat directly on the coals
אֵין צוֹלִין בָּצָל וּבֵיצָה אוֹ בָשָׂר עַל גַּבֵּי גֶחָלִים אֶלָּא כְדֵי שֶׁיִּצָּלֶה מִבְּעוֹד יוֹם מִשְּׁנֵי צְדָדָיו כְּמַאֲכַל בֶּן דְּרוּסָאי שֶׁהוּא חֲצִי בִּשּׁוּלוֹ. אֲפִילּוּ הוּא בְּשַׂר גְּדִי, דְּכֵיוָן שֶׁהִנִּיחוֹ עַל גַּבֵּי גֶחָלִים אֵינוֹ חוֹשֵׁשׁ אֶלָּא שֶׁיִּצָּלֶה מַהֵר וַאֲפִילּוּ שֶׁיִּתְחָרֵךְ — הִלְכָּךְ חָיְישִׁינַן שֶׁמָּא יְחַתֶּה. אֲבָל כְּשֶׁנִּצְלָה כְּמַאֲכַל בֶּן דְּרוּסַאי — לֹא חָיְישִׁינַן דִּלְמָא אָתֵי לְחַתּוּיֵי, אֲפִילּוּ אִם הוּא בְּשַׂר שׁוֹר, שֶׁמֵּאַחַר שֶׁהוּא רָאוּי לַאֲכִילָה — לָמָּה יְחַתֶּה לְהַפְסִידוֹ.
One may not roast onion, egg, meat on coals close to nightfall unless they have roasted on both sides like maachal ben Drosai (half cooked) before Shabbat. And this applies even to gedi meat — because here one has placed it directly on the coals and has accepted that it may even get scorched a bit. So one would be tempted to stoke to speed things up. But once it has roasted to the level of ma'achal ben Drusai — we are no longer concerned lest one come to stoke, even for ox meat: since it is already fit to eat — why would one stoke and ruin it?
Difference between Seif Alef and Seif Beit:
- Seif Alef: meat near the fire (etzel ha-eish) — the chitui concern vanishes for gedi/chicken (one wouldn't want to scorch tender meat).
- Seif Beit: meat on the coals (al ha-gechalim) — one has already accepted possible scorching, so the chitui concern returns.
Seif Gimmel — If transgressed willfully or by mistake
אִם עָבַר אוֹ שָׁכַח וְנִצְלָה בְּשַׁבָּת בְּאִסּוּר — אָסוּר.
If one transgressed willfully (meizid) or forgot (shogeg) and the cooking finished on Shabbat in violation of the conditions — the food is forbidden. See siman שי״ח for details (Mechaber: forbidden to the transgressor; Rama: bichdei she-ya'asu).
Seif Daled — Raw fruits around the pot
פֵּרוֹת שֶׁנֶּאֱכָלִין חַיִּין — מוּתָּר לִיתְּנָם סָבִיב הַקְּדֵירָה אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאִי אֶפְשָׁר שֶׁיִּצּוֹלוּ קוֹדֶם שֶׁחֲשֵׁכָה. וּמִיהוּ צָרִיךְ לִיזָּהֵר שֶׁלֹּא יַחֲזִיר הַכִּיסּוּי אִם נִתְגַּלָּה מִשֶּׁחֲשֵׁכָה, וְשֶׁלֹּא לְהוֹסִיף עָלָיו עַד שֶׁיִּצּוֹלוּ — מִפְּנֵי שֶׁמְּמַהֵר לִגְמוֹר בִּשּׁוּלָם בְּשַׁבָּת.
Fruits eaten raw (i.e. already edible as they are) — one may place them around the pot to warm/roast — even if they won't be cooked before Shabbat. Precautions:
- Don't put the cover back on the oven/hearth if it came off on Shabbat (= bishul)
- Don't add more on Shabbat (= preparation / bishul)
Seif Heh — Bread in the oven near nightfall (kerimat panim)
אֵין נוֹתְנִין סָמוּךְ לַחֲשֵׁיכָה פַּת בַּתַּנּוּר אֶלָּא כְּדֵי שֶׁיִּקְרְמוּ (פֵּרוּשׁ: שֶׁיַּעֲלֶה עַל פְּנֵי הַלֶּחֶם קְרוּם וּקְלִיפָּה מֵחֲמַת הָאֵשׁ) פָּנָיו הַמְדוּבָּקִים בַּתַּנּוּר, וְלֹא חֲרָרָה עַל גַּבֵּי גֶחָלִים אֶלָּא כְּדֵי שֶׁיִּקְרְמוּ פָּנֶיהָ שֶׁכְּנֶגֶד הָאֵשׁ. הגה: וְכָל שֶׁפּוֹרְסָהּ וְאֵין הַחוּטִין נִמְשָׁכִין — קָרוּי קְרִימַת פָּנִים (הגה"מ פ"ג). וּפַשְׁטִיד"א אוֹ פְלַאדִי"ן צָרִיךְ שֶׁיִּקְרוֹם פָּנָיו לְמַעְלָה וּלְמַטָּה וְיִתְבַּשֵּׁל מַה שֶּׁבְּתוֹכָהּ כְּמַאֲכַל בֶּן דְּרוּסַאי (ב"י בשם סמ"ג וסה"ת והגהות מיי'). וְאִם נָתַן אוֹתָם סָמוּךְ לַחֲשֵׁיכָה וְלֹא קָרְמוּ פְּנֵיהֶם: אִם בְּמֵזִיד — אָסוּר עַד מוֹצָאֵי שַׁבָּת בִּכְדֵי שֶׁיֵּעָשׂוּ; וְאִם בְּשׁוֹגֵג — אִם אֵין לוֹ מַה יֹּאכַל, מוּתָּר לוֹ לִרְדּוֹת מִמֶּנּוּ מְזוֹן שָׁלֹשׁ סְעוּדוֹת, וְאוֹמֵר לַאֲחֵרִים שֶׁאֵין לָהֶם מַה יֹּאכְלוּ: בֹּאוּ וּרְדוּ לָכֶם מְזוֹן שָׁלֹשׁ סְעוּדוֹת. וּכְשֶׁהוּא רוֹדֶה — לֹא יִרְדֶּה בְּמִרְדֶּה (פֵּרוּשׁ: בְּרַחַת וּבְמִזְרֶה, תַּרְגּוּם מִרְדֶּה פאל"ה בלע"ז) אֶלָּא בְּסַכִּין וְכַיּוֹצֵא בוֹ, שֶׁלֹּא יַעֲשֶׂה כְּדֶרֶךְ שֶׁעוֹשֶׂה בְּחוֹל; וְאִם אִי אֶפְשָׁר לִרְדּוֹת בְּשִׁינּוּי — יִרְדֶּה בְּמִרְדֶּה. וְאִם נְתָנָהּ בִּכְדֵי שֶׁיִּקְרְמוּ פָּנֶיהָ — כֵּיוָן דְּלָא עָבַד אִיסּוּרָא וְצוֹרֶךְ שַׁבָּת הוּא, רוֹדֶה כְּדַרְכּוֹ; וְשֶׁלֹּא לְצוֹרֶךְ הַיּוֹם — אָסוּר אֲפִילּוּ בְּשִׁינּוּי. הגה: וְכָל זֶה בְּתַנּוּר שֶׁאֵינוֹ טוּחַ בְּטִיט (הגהות אשירי), אֲבָל אִם הוּא טוּחַ בְּטִיט, אוֹ שֶׁאֵינוֹ אוֹפֶה לְצוֹרֶךְ שַׁבָּת רַק לְמוֹצָאֵי שַׁבָּת, דְּיֵשׁ לוֹ זְמַן לַאֲפוֹתוֹ — מוּתָּר, דְּלָא גָּזְרִינַן בְּכִי הַאי גַּוְנָא שֶׁמָּא יְחַתֶּה (כל בו).
One does not put bread in the oven near nightfall — unless there is time for the crust (kerimas panim) to form (i.e. a crust and skin rise on the surface of the bread from the fire) on the side stuck to the oven; nor a cake on coals (chararah) — unless its surface facing the fire can crust.
Hagahah of the Rema: whenever one slices it and threads no longer pull — that is called kerimas panim [Hagahos Maimonios ch. 3]. And a pie (pashtida) or fladen must crust on top and bottom, and what is inside must cook to the level of ma'achal ben Drusai [Beis Yosef in the name of Semag, Sefer HaTerumah and Hagahos Maimonios].
The Mechaber continues: if one put them in near nightfall and their surface did not crust: deliberately — assur until after Shabbos plus the time of their making (bichdei she'yei'asu); unintentionally — if one has nothing to eat, one may remove (lirdos) from it food for three meals, and one says to others who have nothing to eat: "come and remove for yourselves food for three meals". And when removing — not with the baker's peel (mirdeh), but with a knife or the like, so as not to do as on a weekday; and if it is impossible to remove with a deviation — one may remove with the peel. And if one put it in with enough time to crust — since no issur was done and it is a Shabbos need, one removes in the normal way; but not for the day's need — assur even with a deviation.
Hagahah of the Rema: and all this is in an oven not sealed with clay [Hagahos Ashri]; but if it is sealed with clay, or one bakes not for Shabbos but for after Shabbos — so that there is time to bake it — permitted, for they did not decree in such a case "lest one stoke" [Kol Bo].
Hagahah of the Rema: whenever one slices it and threads no longer pull — that is called kerimas panim [Hagahos Maimonios ch. 3]. And a pie (pashtida) or fladen must crust on top and bottom, and what is inside must cook to the level of ma'achal ben Drusai [Beis Yosef in the name of Semag, Sefer HaTerumah and Hagahos Maimonios].
The Mechaber continues: if one put them in near nightfall and their surface did not crust: deliberately — assur until after Shabbos plus the time of their making (bichdei she'yei'asu); unintentionally — if one has nothing to eat, one may remove (lirdos) from it food for three meals, and one says to others who have nothing to eat: "come and remove for yourselves food for three meals". And when removing — not with the baker's peel (mirdeh), but with a knife or the like, so as not to do as on a weekday; and if it is impossible to remove with a deviation — one may remove with the peel. And if one put it in with enough time to crust — since no issur was done and it is a Shabbos need, one removes in the normal way; but not for the day's need — assur even with a deviation.
Hagahah of the Rema: and all this is in an oven not sealed with clay [Hagahos Ashri]; but if it is sealed with clay, or one bakes not for Shabbos but for after Shabbos — so that there is time to bake it — permitted, for they did not decree in such a case "lest one stoke" [Kol Bo].
Kerimat panim = visual marker of cooking: "v'chol she-porsah v'ein ha-chutin nimshachin" (Rama) — when you cut the bread, the crumb no longer pulls into sticky strands. This is the bread equivalent of maachal ben Drosai. If forgotten without kerimah:
- Willfully → forbidden until the end of Shabbat + kdei she-ya'asu
- By mistake → permitted to remove 3 meals' worth with a shinui (knife instead of the bread peel / mardeh)
Seif Vav — Removing bread put in the oven on Shabbat
וְאִם נְתָנוֹ בְּשַׁבָּת אֲפִילּוּ בְּמֵזִיד — מוּתָּר לוֹ לִרְדּוֹת קוֹדֶם שֶׁיֵּאָפֶה, כְּדֵי שֶׁלֹּא יָבֹא לִידֵי אִיסּוּר סְקִילָה.
If one has put bread in the oven on Shabbat — even willfully — one may remove it before it finishes baking in order to avoid a more severe violation (skilah — the death penalty if the baking is completed). This is an exceptional case of rabbinic permission to prevent a Torah-level transgression.
Seif Zayin — Today's ovens (without a mardeh)
בְּתַנּוּרִים שֶׁלָּנוּ שֶׁאֵין בָּהֶם רְדִיָּה — מֻתָּר לְהוֹצִיא יוֹתֵר מִשָּׁלֹשׁ סְעוּדוֹת בְּסַכִּין אוֹ בְּשׁוּם דָּבָר שֶׁיִּתְחוֹב בּוֹ. וּמִכָּל מָקוֹם, לֹא יוֹצִיא בְּרַחַת מִשּׁוּם דְּמִחֲזֵי כְּעוֹבְדָא דְחוֹל.
In our ovens (rectangular, without a mardeh = baker's peel) — one may take out more than 3 meals' worth with a knife or any object used to poke/spear. Don't use a peel (rachat) — it looks too much like a weekday action (uvda d'chol).
Seif Het — Legumes that cook fast
לֹא יְמַלֵּא אָדָם קְדֵירָה עֲסָסִיּוֹת (פֵּרוּשׁ: מִינֵי קִטְנִיּוֹת הַגְּדֵילוֹת בְּאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלֹא בְּבָבֶל) וְתוּרְמוּסִין וְיִתֵּן לְתוֹךְ הַתַּנּוּר עֶרֶב שַׁבָּת סָמוּךְ לַחֲשֵׁיכָה, מִפְּנֵי שֶׁדְּבָרִים אֵלּוּ אֵינָם צְרִיכִים בִּישּׁוּל רַב וְדַעְתּוֹ עֲלֵיהֶם לְאָכְלָם לְאַלְתַּר, וּמִפְּנֵי כָךְ, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁלֹּא נִתְבַּשְּׁלוּ כָּל עִיקָּר — הֲרֵי הֵם כִּשְׁאָר תַּבְשִׁיל שֶׁהִתְחִיל לְהִתְבַּשֵּׁל וְלֹא נִתְבַּשֵּׁל כָּל צָרְכּוֹ שֶׁאָסוּר לְהַשְׁהוֹתוֹ, וְהוּא הַדִּין לְכִירָה וְכוּפָּח. הגה: כְּשֶׁאֵינָן גְּרוּפִין וּקְטוּמִים וְאֶפְשָׁר לַחְתּוֹת (ב"י ומ"מ פ"ב). וְאִם עָשָׂה כֵן, אֲפִילּוּ בְּשׁוֹגֵג — אֲסוּרִים לְמוֹצָאֵי שַׁבָּת עַד כְּדֵי שֶׁיֵּעָשׂוּ.
A person should not fill a pot with asasiyos (kinds of legumes that grow in Eretz Yisrael and not in Bavel) and lupines and put it into the oven on erev Shabbos near nightfall — for these things do not need much cooking, and one intends to eat them right away (le'alter); therefore, even though they have not cooked at all — they are like any dish that began to cook and is not fully cooked, which one may not leave; and the same applies to a kirah and a kupach.
Hagahah of the Rema: when they are not swept and banked and it is possible to stoke [Beis Yosef; Maggid Mishneh ch. 2].
The Mechaber concludes: and if one did so, even unintentionally — they are assur until after Shabbos, the time of their making (kdei she'yei'asu).
Hagahah of the Rema: when they are not swept and banked and it is possible to stoke [Beis Yosef; Maggid Mishneh ch. 2].
The Mechaber concludes: and if one did so, even unintentionally — they are assur until after Shabbos, the time of their making (kdei she'yei'asu).
The chiddush of Seif Het: the "completely raw" exemption from siman 253 does not apply when there is intent to eat immediately. If the cooking is fast AND meant for that very night → one would be tempted to stoke. Direct application to the modern slow cooker: a slow cooker is designed to cook overnight for morning use → the "chai legamri" exemption from siman 253 doesn't hold.
Seif Tet — Jug of water in the oven
כַּיּוֹצֵא בּוֹ — לֹא יְמַלֵּא חָבִית שֶׁל מַיִם וְיִתֵּן לְתוֹךְ הַתַּנּוּר עֶרֶב שַׁבָּת עִם חֲשֵׁיכָה; וְאִם עָשָׂה כֵן — אֲסוּרִים לְמוֹצָאֵי שַׁבָּת בִּכְדֵי שֶׁיֵּעָשׂוּ.
The same goes for a jug of water placed in the oven near nightfall. Why: the water comes to a boil quickly + it's needed early → one would be tempted to stoke. Sanction: if done — the water is forbidden until kdei she-ya'asu after Shabbat.
2. The general context
What is this siman about?
Siman רנ״ד is the direct continuation of siman 253, but it narrows the focus to three particular cases where shema yechateh (the worry one might stoke the coals) shows up in a specific way:
| Case | Meaning | Deciding criterion |
|---|---|---|
| Roasted meat (Seifim 1-3) | Near the fire or on the coals | Type of meat (gedi/chicken vs beef) + oven sealed or not |
| Bread and meat pies in the oven (Seifim 5-7) | Fast cooking that needs monitoring | Kerimat panim (formed crust) before Shabbat |
| Legumes and water (Seifim 8-9) | Fast-cooking foods wanted that very night | Intent of immediate use → one would be tempted to stoke |
The common thread: shema yechateh = the worry one might stoke. Siman 253 laid down the general rule (cooking on Shabbat). Siman 254 fine-tunes it for 3 specific modes where the risk depends not on the type of cooking but on intentions and physical conditions. Talmudic sources: Mishnah Shabbat 18b–20a + the surrounding sugya.
Connection with neighboring simanim
| Siman | Topic | Connection |
|---|---|---|
| רנ״ב | Melachot one starts before Shabbat | Shema yechateh concept |
| רנ״ג | Shehiyah, chazarah, hatmanah | General framework of cooking for Shabbat |
| רנ״ד | Specific dishes (roast, bread, legumes) | — |
| רנ״ה | Hadlakat ner Shabbat | Time framework |
| רנ״ז | Hatmanah | Reference for Seif Daled (cover) |
| שי״ח | Bishul on Shabbat | Bediavad if transgressed |
3. Key concept 1 — Gedi / chicken meat vs beef
גְּדִי וָעוֹף = kid and poultry, tender meat that cooks fast. בְּשַׂר שׁוֹר אוֹ עֵז = mature beef or goat, tough meat that takes a long time. Halachic consequence: in the first case, stoking would scorch the tender meat — so the person has no incentive → permitted near the fire (Seif Alef). In the second, stoking speeds up the cooking of tough meat — the person does have an incentive → forbidden.
Important: this distinction falls away when the meat is placed directly on the coals (Seif Beit). Why? Because placing it on the coals = accepting the possibility of scorching, so the "one wouldn't want to scorch it" argument falls for all types of meat.
4. Key concept 2 — Tanur tach b'tit
תַּנּוּר טוּחַ בְּטִיט = "oven sealed with clay" — the opening of the oven is plugged with clay for the cooking. To open it: one would have to break the seal, and cold air would rush in. Consequence: nobody will do that just to stoke, because (a) it takes serious effort, (b) the oven cools down, (c) the meat toughens. So the chitui concern is structurally eliminated.
Modern application: a sealed professional bread oven, or a Shabbat-mode electric oven where the opening is regulated — comparable. More broadly: any thermostat-driven/automatic device where human intervention doesn't affect the heat — equivalent to tach b'tit.
5. Key concept 3 — Kerimat panim and pashtida
קְרִימַת פָּנִים = "formation of the crust" — this is the minimum cooking threshold for bread, equivalent to maachal ben Drosai for other foods. The test: Rama — "v'chol she-porsah v'ein ha-chutin nimshachin" (the crumb no longer pulls into sticky strands when cut).
| Food | Minimum threshold before Shabbat |
|---|---|
| Bread in the oven | Crust on the oven side (kerimat panim) |
| Flatbread on coals (charara) | Crust on the fire side |
| Meat pie/tart (pashtida, fladen) | Crust top + bottom + inside ben Drosai |
| Meat/onion/egg on coals (Seif Beit) | Cooked ben Drosai on both sides |
| Meat roasted near the fire (Seif Alef) | No threshold — depends on type of meat and oven |
6. The details of the 9 seifim
Seif Alef — Roasted meat: 4 crossed cases
| Type of meat | Near the fire (etzel ha-eish) | Tanur tach b'tit |
|---|---|---|
| Gedi (kid) / chicken in pieces | Permitted | Permitted |
| Mature beef or goat | Forbidden | Permitted |
| Whole carcass (guf shalem) | Machloket — Rama: status like gedi (Mordechai) | Permitted |
| On the coals (Seif Beit) | Forbidden (even gedi) unless already ben Drosai | — |
Seif Beit — On the coals (direct roasting)
Rule: onion, egg, meat directly on the coals — must be ben Drosai on both sides before Shabbat. Why: putting on coals = accepting that it might scorch → the chitui concern comes back for all meat types.
Seif Gimmel — Bediavad
If transgressed (meizid or shogeg) and cooking happened on Shabbat — the food is forbidden. Details in siman שי״ח.
Seif Daled — Raw fruits around the pot
Permitted to place fruits eaten raw around the pot — they'll warm up without any minimum cooking threshold. Logic: already edible → no gezeirah.
Shabbat precautions: don't put the cover back on, don't add more.
Shabbat precautions: don't put the cover back on, don't add more.
Seif Heh — Bread in the oven (kerimat panim)
| Case | Conduct |
|---|---|
| Crust formed before Shabbat | Permitted |
| Crust not formed — meizid | Forbidden until the end of Shabbat + kdei she-ya'asu |
| Crust not formed — shogeg, no other food | Take out 3 meals' worth with a shinui (knife, not peel) |
| Tanur tach b'tit | Permitted in all cases |
| Baking for motza'ei Shabbat (not for Shabbat) | Permitted (eino ofeh letzorech Shabbat) |
Seif Vav — Bread put in on Shabbat (transgression)
If bread was put in the oven on Shabbat (meizid) — exceptional permission to remove it before it finishes baking to avoid a Torah-level violation (afiyah = skilah). General principle: a minor rabbinic dispensation to prevent a major transgression.
Seif Zayin — Today's ovens (without a mardeh)
Tanurim shelanu: one may take out more than 3 meals with a knife (spearing). Not with a peel (rachat) — too close to a weekday action (uvda d'chol). Modern application: take a dish out of the oven on Shabbat with a fork/knife; don't use a specialized "oven peel."
Seif Het — Legumes (fast cooking + immediate intent)
Forbidden to put legumes (lentils, lupines, etc.) in close to nightfall for that night. Why:
- They cook fast — so the time horizon is short
- Da'ato aleihem le-ochlam le-altar — intent to eat immediately (that very night)
- So — one would be tempted to stoke
Seif Tet — Jug of water in the oven
Same idea: a jug of water meant for that very night = boils fast + immediate need → temptation to stoke. Forbidden.
7. Rama's position
| Topic | Rama's position |
|---|---|
| Whole carcass (Seif Alef) | Status like gedi (guf shalem — Mordechai), even without head or legs |
| Hierarchy of sealed / unsealed / open-fire oven (Seif Alef) | "בתנור טוח בטיט הכל שרי, על גבי האש מגולה הכל אסור, ובתנור שפיו מכוסה אלא שאינו טוח בטיט — יש לחלק בין גדי ועוף ושאר בשר" |
| Practical test of kerimat panim (Seif Heh) | "וכל שפורסה ואין החוטין נמשכין" (crumb without sticky strands) |
| Pie for motza'ei Shabbat (Seif Heh) | "או שאינו אופה לצורך שבת רק למוצאי שבת — מותר" (no gezeirah) |
| Tanur tach b'tit (Seif Heh) | "וכל זה בתנור שאינו טוח בטיט אבל אם הוא טוח בטיט — מותר" |
| Legumes (Seif Het) | "כשאינן גרופין וקטומים" — clarifications on the oven |
8. Modern practical cases
Case 1 — Rotisserie / Shabbat-mode oven with chicken
Case: whole chicken in the Shabbat-mode oven Friday at 5 PM, to be eaten Shabbat lunch.
Conduct:
Conduct:
- Meat type: chicken → benefits from the gedi/chicken exemption
- Shabbat-mode oven = equivalent to tach b'tit (intervention impossible)
- Permitted lechatchilah — the chicken will cook all night
Case 2 — Beef roast in the Shabbat-mode oven
Case: brisket Friday at 5 PM in the Shabbat-mode oven.
Conduct:
Conduct:
- Meat type: beef → no gedi/chicken exemption
- Shabbat-mode oven = tach b'tit → permitted
- If you're unsure about Shabbat mode (free opening, active thermostat) — the roast needs to be ben Drosai before Shabbat (= a long slow cook started early)
Case 3 — Bread in the oven for Shabbat lunch
Case: putting a fougasse in Friday at 5 PM for the morning meal.
Conduct:
Conduct:
- The crust (kerimat panim) must form before Shabbat comes in — meaning about 8-10 min of baking + walk-time
- Shabbat-mode oven ≈ tanur tach b'tit → if you have a doubt, you can lean on this heter (Rama)
- Pie/tart: crust top + bottom + inside ben Drosai
Case 4 — Slow cooker for the lunchtime chamin
Case: Crock-Pot with lentils + meat for Shabbat lunch.
Conduct:
Conduct:
- Lentils = the asasiyot of Seif Het — cook fast + immediate intent → ben Drosai threshold required before Shabbat
- Long slow cook: start Friday morning so the food is cooked before Shabbat comes in
- If fully raw (chai legamri) at the onset of Shabbat and meant to be ready by midnight → forbidden (see correction P1 on siman 253)
Case 5 — Kettle or urn for the night
Case: filling the urn with cold water late Friday so you have hot water at night.
Conduct:
Conduct:
- If the water won't boil before Shabbat comes in → Seif Tet = forbidden (le-ochlam le-altar)
- Solution: fill and plug in early Friday so the water boils before Shabbat
- Water boiled + not adjustable = OK (status of mevushal before Shabbat)
9. Practical synthesis of the Siman
The 4 takeaways from Siman רנ״ד:
- Type of meat: gedi/chicken allow the "one wouldn't want to scorch" exemption; beef/shor — no
- Tanur tach b'tit = universal exemption (≈ modern Shabbat-mode oven)
- Kerimat panim = minimum threshold for bread in the oven (equivalent of ben Drosai)
- Legumes + immediate intent = the "completely raw" exemption of siman 253 doesn't apply because fast cooking + imminent need → temptation to stoke
Practical decision table
| Situation | Conduct |
|---|---|
| Chicken/turkey in Shabbat-mode oven Friday 5 PM | Permitted (gedi/chicken + tach b'tit) |
| Beef roast in Shabbat-mode oven | Permitted (tach b'tit); otherwise — ben Drosai before Shabbat |
| Steak directly on coals at twilight | Forbidden unless ben Drosai on both sides |
| Bread in the oven for Shabbat lunch | Crust formed before Shabbat; otherwise — forbidden |
| Crust-covered pie (pashtida) | Crust top+bottom + inside ben Drosai |
| Chamin slow cooker with lentils | Cooked ben Drosai before Shabbat (Seif Het) |
| Cold-water urn plugged in late Friday | Forbidden — unless boiled before Shabbat (Seif Tet) |
| Fruits around the cholent to warm up | Permitted (Seif Daled) |
| Bread put in the oven on Shabbat by mistake | Remove it before it finishes baking (Seif Vav) |
| Taking a dish out of the oven on Shabbat | With knife/fork; not with a peel (Seif Zayin) |
The 5 practical takeaways of Siman רנ״ד
- Identify the meat: gedi/chicken (tender) or beef (tough) — changes the status near the fire
- Sealed oven / Shabbat mode = exemption for all types of meat
- Bread: crust formed before Shabbat starts — otherwise, wait until the end of Shabbat (meizid) or remove with a shinui (shogeg)
- Legumes + fast cooking + immediate need = ben Drosai required before Shabbat (= overrides the "completely raw" exemption)
- Taking out of the oven on Shabbat with a pointed object (knife, fork) — never with a peel
10. Comprehension questions
Check your understanding:
- Why does chicken/gedi get an exemption near the fire, but beef doesn't?
- What does tanur tach b'tit mean? What is its halachic consequence?
- In Seif Beit, why does meat on the coals lose the gedi exemption?
- What does kerimat panim mean? What is its practical test according to the Rama?
- For a crust-covered pie (pashtida), what are the 3 minimum cooking conditions?
- In Seif Vav, why allow removing bread put in on Shabbat even if meizid?
- Why do we take out of a modern oven with a knife and not a peel?
- What does da'ato aleihem le-ochlam le-altar mean (Seif Het)? How does it exclude the "completely raw" exemption?
- For a modern slow cooker with lentils — what checks should you do before Shabbat?
- How do simanim 252 / 253 / 254 fit into the chronology of Shabbat-kitchen preparation?
To go deeper into this siman:
- 📚 Level 2 — Lamdan: sugya Shabbat 18b–20a, Rashi/Tosafot machloket on gedi vs shor, chakirah on kerimat panim (siman or metziut), the redi'ah problem, modern nafka minas
- ✨ Level 3 — Synthesis: axiom, mnemonics, decision tree
- 📜 Level 4 — Daat HaRav: the Admur HaZaken's shitah on the 15 seifim and 3 Kuntress Acharon entries
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
DAAT · רב יוסף חיים סממה
Talmid chacham · Maggid shiur in halachah and chassidut
Siman רנ״ד · Level 1 — Introduction
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DAAT · רב יוסף חיים סממה
Talmid chacham · Maggid shiur in halachah and chassidut
Siman רנ״ד · Level 1 — Introduction
♥ Support DAAT